Aging In Place Directory

65 - Your Home Coach Will See You Now: Breaking Up With Clutter

• Esther C Kane CAPS, C.D.S. • Episode 65

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What if your home could be the key to rediscovering your authentic self? Michelle Hoff believes it can. As a pioneering "home coach" with over 30 years of experience working in people's living spaces, Michelle has developed a revolutionary approach to decluttering that goes far beyond organizing tips or storage solutions.

Michelle's journey began with a commercial cleaning business and evolved through roles in home furnishings, interior design, and life coaching. This unique combination of skills led to her book "Compassionate Decluttering," which took 12 years to complete—a testament to the depth and care she brings to this work. The premise is powerful: our homes reflect our internal landscape, and by mindfully addressing our spaces, we can address ourselves.

For those navigating aging in place, Michelle's insights are particularly valuable. She emphasizes that decluttering is the essential first step to creating a safe, functional home that supports independence. The process isn't merely physical; it requires addressing emotional attachments, guilt, obligations, and the fear of making mistakes. Her compassionate approach involves looking inward to clarify your vision before addressing your possessions, practicing self-forgiveness, and—critically—assembling a supportive team.

The transformation extends beyond tidy closets. As clients release items that no longer serve them, they consistently report feeling lighter, freer, and more energized. This newfound freedom builds confidence and resilience that transfers to other areas of life. For midlife and older adults especially, compassionate decluttering offers an opportunity to reclaim spaces for themselves after years of prioritizing others' needs.

Ready to transform your relationship with your home? Visit homecoachhoff.com to access resources including vision and values worksheets, guided meditations, and two free chapters of Michelle's book. Whether you're seeking to age in place gracefully or simply create a space that truly nurtures you, this compassionate approach might be exactly what you've been searching for.

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Speaker 1:

I love your wooden glasses in the back there. Thanks, so, hello everyone. Thank you so much for coming to our podcast. This is going to be broadcast actually on SeniorSafetyAdvicecom and on AgingInPlaceDirectorycom on those two podcasts as well as those two YouTube channels. So if you're watching us on YouTube, thank you, hello, welcome channel. So if you're watching us on YouTube, thank you, hello, welcome. And I am so happy today to bring on to this podcast Michelle Hoff.

Speaker 1:

She is the author of Compassionate Decluttering and I'll tell you what attracted me was to this book was just the title of. I mean, I love decluttering, that's my thing. But compassionate decluttering was such an interesting niche, an interesting viewpoint of it, much different than just you know, get out there and pull out a few things and give them away and change this and have this. You know save box and you know all the other tips that you normally hear. You know save box and you know all the other tips that you normally hear. And this went a little deeper and I think, michelle, I think what you told me is it was a 10 year process to write the book.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I shudder to say a 12 year process to write this book.

Speaker 1:

So a lot of love went into this book. I got to tell you a lot of love.

Speaker 2:

Yes, a lot of self-compassion to get through it.

Speaker 1:

So this is Michelle Hoff, and I am going to let her introduce herself to you. Take it away, Michelle.

Speaker 2:

Oh, thanks so much, esther. It's nice to be here, really wonderful to be here, actually. Yes, so, michelle, home coach Hoff and the home coach piece is helping. First and foremost, I'm a life coach, but I have a niche as a home coach. Okay, and from what I know, I'm the only home coach. I looked at the International Coaches Federation website no such thing, and that's the mothership of coaches. So, um, but I love.

Speaker 2:

I've been working in people's homes physically for over 30 years. Um, I owned a commercial and residential cleaning business. Started that when I was in college and he did that for 10 years. I worked in the home furnishings industry for 10 years at Room and Board. Its headquarters is here in Minneapolis and I did various roles there. And I also started a business called Design Within.

Speaker 2:

After that, after I was trained as a life coach, I went on a walk in the Pyrenees Mountains with a bunch of life coaches from around the world, with the mission each day to kind of chew on a question that was going to lead us to the, the one thing that we were going to change and contribute to the world. And I came up with my business name, design Within, integrating my coaching certification course and all my design skills in interior design, landscape design and interior painting, and my degree is in horticulture and landscape management. So all of my love and passions are around home. And but I wanted to um. I got my master's degree in human development and I um the thesis of my master's. What became the genesis of my book, compassionate Decluttering, and it was about recovering your authentic self and using your home as a medium to do that well, I would say you are well rounded in that beautiful home niche right.

Speaker 1:

I love that and I think when I first saw you or met you on LinkedIn, I think I asked you what is a home coach, like what I had. I hadn't heard of that term either myself, so I love that. You own it Is there. You should buy the domain homecoachcom if it's available.

Speaker 2:

Well, my website is homecoachhoffcom.

Speaker 1:

Oh Home.

Speaker 2:

Coach Hoff. Okay, I've also spent 40 years in different sports activities and I love the concept of being a part of a team, and I do that still today.

Speaker 1:

So I think that's so important, especially with aging in place professionals. I mean, there's no way that any one specialty can walk into someone's home and be able to do everything exactly you know.

Speaker 1:

But if you can have, if you can consider yourself as part of a team of all these other people, you know, someone can be the contractor or the handyman or the designer or whatever, and then you can at least be the provider of that, you can be the source that that family always calls for whatever they need, exactly. Yeah, that's what makes you invaluable. I think that's really the biggest factor that a lot of aging in place professionals miss out on. Is that?

Speaker 2:

team approach, that team approach A hundred percent and decluttering in and of itself. I mean, if it was easy it'd be done right.

Speaker 1:

I mean and it's the first step to aging. It's the very first step. You can't do um, there's almost nothing you can do, well, unless it's out. Well, no, there's almost nothing you can do unless it's decluttering, even outdoors, that you have to declutter.

Speaker 1:

That's the very first step, and it's so emotional that you really have to come at it from a different angle. That's what I loved about the title of your book compassionate decluttering because it really does require a lot of empathy, a lot of understanding, there's psychology, there's everything is involved in this issue of clutter, especially here in the US.

Speaker 1:

You know, we don't practice Swedish death cleaning too often. You know we don't do that at all. We, you know, fill our houses with stuff and stuff and stuff and it's just part of our culture. I guess it is. I don't know how many decades it's built. Part of our culture? I guess it is, I don't know how many decades.

Speaker 2:

It's built into the fabric of being, you know, a capitalist country.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, it's true, it's true. So I love that. That inspired you. You know the inspirations that you got from moving from one business to another and how you got here. Can you share a personal story that maybe shaped your philosophy over around compassionate decluttering? I mean, is it something that happened to you personally, or a client, or how did you come up with that whole idea?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's a great question and part of it is what I was mentioning about the legacy of where I've been in different jobs and experiences I've had with that 30 years and coupled with the 12 years it took me to write my book, even in this year, that the word that has motivated me, both personally and professionally, and what I'm seeing in my client, is this word of discontent.

Speaker 2:

There is this layer of discontentment that people live with around and in their home and it's that quelling that discontent in my mind and I do that for myself personally, I am on a constant quest to figure out how, who I am and what it is I need and want in my life and choices I make.

Speaker 2:

So, um, and because the home is a space where we spend, you know, hopefully more than 80 years or in our lifetime and 30 percent of our income, right there's like I want, I'm really like, I want to get the value out of that and I want to help my clients get the value out of that. And then you know this, as we talked about the magical world of marketing and shoving all these things down our throats all the time, right, there's so many, so much consumerism going on that I just people tend to then, in all the social media as well, we're looking outside of ourself for answers to comfort and and this magical um feeling of home that is depicted in magazines and, you know, hgtv shows and whatnot and how we should look, our home should look, and my philosophy is stop, stop the noise and look inside of yourself yeah, I agree with you a hundred percent.

Speaker 1:

I think the notion of looking outside of yourself for that sense of happiness or fulfillment or whatever you want to call it, is it's futile, because it's never outside of yourself, it's inside of yourself. But of course, that takes a lot more work, you know. It takes um, you know and and and. Just like you said, you just came to it this year, or you came to a, an idea this year, and I think that's the con, the the idea is that it's never completed. You're constantly, hopefully, you're constantly learning and growing and changing, and it's, I mean, the only thing that's constant in our life is change, that's for sure. So how do we react to it? How do we learn from each thing that happens to us? How do we, you know, build that up in ourselves and how do we not stay? You know, whatever you learned when you were 25, it's going to be completely different when you're 35, 45, 55, hopefully yes, I hope so too, because we're not the same person.

Speaker 1:

Thank, god, thank god for that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I don't want to go back to that I wouldn't mind being that age, but only if I know what I know. Now, you know which. I think everyone, everyone says that. But I think you're absolutely right. And the home is really the heart of everything and you want it to be your peaceful, restful, you know, haven. You want it to be your haven, where you go home and you relax. And you, you know I'm working on making my home my resort. It's my resort, it's my place.

Speaker 1:

You know, I don't care. I don't really. I've traveled so much in my life. I don't want to travel. I don't care to see another tree, another church, another, this, another, that I don't care. You know I, when my friends go away, I tell them just send me a rock, send me a rock from wherever, and that's good, that's good enough. It's that because it just these things don't matter. But what matters to me is my home and I want it to be my safe place where I spend all my time and get to do what I want. Um, and I think everyone wants that, but not everyone knows how to do that Exactly. And you know, two years from now, I'm going to find something different that I did, now that you know I may want to change or anything. So that's where I think that concept of home coach comes in, which I think is so great. I mean mean you did? You say you had a course.

Speaker 2:

I went, I got certified um a life coaching certification through the international coaches federation in 2003 actually, so quite a while ago, yeah, um, and so I've been at it for coaching for a while and just just narrowing and refining my client base and you know my messaging over time Because it's you know you talk about clutter and then you talk about, you know, working on the inside stuff and people get a little freaked out like I'm going to. You know I'm not a therapist and that is the most important distinction that coaching is not about, you know, working through the past, although things come up and I'm not afraid of that and if the client's willing to look at that.

Speaker 2:

but we're always looking forward into what's new, what's next, what's the goal, what's the where are you reaching for fulfillment and what does that look like?

Speaker 1:

Right, exactly, I love that, I love that concept. I'm sure you came to that. You know, as years went by and you, you had lessons in your life and I think that's that just goes to show that you've been through. You know, you've been through it to get to this place good, bad, whatever. You know I, you know, when my friends talk about bad events, I go, yeah, but this bad event is going to teach you something and it's going to make you this amazing person. You just have to be patient to get through it. And so I think you've done a great job and I just I love that title home coach, just love it.

Speaker 1:

Um, especially, especially, you know, in this, in this niche of aging in place, you really are coming in to home coach them so that they can stay there as independently as possible, for as long as possible. That's the whole idea, even if it's not in that particular home, even if it's in an assisted living or wherever independent living, wherever they end up going or wherever they end up staying Right, they want to make that environment as safe and as far as long, so that they can be as independent for as long as possible and for me being sort of interrupt, but for me also that word independent is like I am fiercely independent and I don't want anyone telling me what to do.

Speaker 2:

I want that agency in my life for as long as I am breathing. So I want, I can't imagine. Well, those are the clients that that I work with, and you know I'm not pulling or pushing anybody towards my ideas. Right, that's against everything that home coach off stands for. We're, we're harvesting what's, what's your vision in the process, and that lifestyle um looking at the positive sides of change in the process right, exactly.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I love it, I love. Yeah, I wish you were here in Georgia. I'd have you come home coach me.

Speaker 2:

Well, luckily I'm virtual, so let's, let's sign up.

Speaker 1:

Let's sign up. I need to turn on my camera and have you analyze my my environment.

Speaker 2:

Oh yeah, no, no. I want you to also know that I owned a cleaning business, a painting business and all that kind of landscape business. I may see things that I notice, but I it's not mine to judge, and I. Oh yeah, everyone's unique in the way they live their homes and there's no prescription to how you live in your home.

Speaker 1:

Oh, of course it's not, and it's not about judgment to how you live in your home. Oh, of course, and it's not about judgment, you know. It's just about being. I mean, to me, an assessment is using someone's expertise in what they know and how they see things, Because, I mean, we all live in our own little bubbles every single one of us.

Speaker 1:

We have our own biases and everything. So I think it's so important to invite as many people in, you know, to whatever, to your idea, to your book, that you wrote to your house to whatever, and ask you know, hey, what would you do? Can you see anything better? You know, every time I have a guest over, the comment is what else could I put in that room, or what can I take out, or what would you like? You know, what wouldn't you like? I mean because you never, you don't always, see what other people see. So it's not about judgment, it's just about getting a professional assessment for everything. I think that's, I think you have to be open to that, otherwise, you know, we just stay in our own little idea, our little bubble. So how do you help your clients overcome what we all know, these emotional barriers of letting go? You know what? What do you think are the top three or five or whatever tools or tips to help, maybe, a family member when working with their own elderly parent?

Speaker 1:

Yeah such a good question. It's such a good question. Is it going to take an hour? I don't know.

Speaker 2:

You know, it's actually pretty simple, and I ask my clients to just stop looking at their stuff. Okay, stop looking at it and, again, look inside to the vision that you might have. Look inside to the vision that you might have if you were to just meditate for a minute on a vision that you wanted for your lifestyle, wherever that is, what would you be doing what? Who would you be having over? How much social? What do you want the space to feel like? What's your vision? What do you value?

Speaker 2:

Do you want family to be a part of that vision? Do you want a client who has got an open door policy? That was her vision. She wanted to have an open door policy when she got rid of her stuff, which she has already done. And other clients just wanted to have people actually use their guest room rather than have it be a storage area. And you know so that when you can stop looking at what is and look forward to what could be in that space that and that lifestyle because they're combined that is a great place to start, first and foremost, and the other softy parts because I'm just doing a lot of internal work here is loving self-compassion and that which comes with like forgiveness for maybe having it be a space where you made some mistakes you know, you.

Speaker 2:

You don't have the order or the systems that you wanted or need. Maybe you've tried and failed or whatever. Maybe you bought things that you know you never used or you know so expensive you don't know how to get rid of it. You know, just go through a process of accepting the fact that you did make some mistakes and you did the best you could at the time with the information and the situation you had, and bless your soul to just let that go and do some forgiveness.

Speaker 2:

The, you know, overcoming emotional barriers is a place where you do need some support. I think being having someone who's a cheerleader for you, that can hold that vision that you see for that space and that lifestyle, and sharing it with people who you know can support you in that vision, is critical, because that's where the movement and improvement happens, is when we work together so you're talking about family and friends, neighbors, whatever people, because the first stage of um kind of um, releasing that vision and that lifestyle to the world is first sharing it with yourself and getting some clarity for that, for for that vision and lifestyle.

Speaker 2:

And then that next step of sharing it with someone who really cares about you and wants the same thing for you. Um, yeah, the the, and what I do too is that I let my clients know that you cannot do this process alone. You have to have a team of people, because it is so very complicated. Right, creating that next lifestyle which involves decluttering is an organizer, a declutterer, someone who knows how to sell stuff because you know, have some valuable things you might want to get some money for. There's donation sites you know how do you navigate those and the prioritizing. And then, well, planning or listing all the projects, prioritizing all those projects, breaking all those projects down, because decluttering is not a to-do on a to-do list, it's all the little, little little projects in that realm of decluttering, right, so it's. You cannot do it alone and people really put a lot of pressure on themselves to think they have to do this alone and they really don't and they shouldn't. No, they don't and they shouldn't.

Speaker 1:

No, they shouldn't, they truly shouldn't. When my husband passed away years ago, we were living in a large home and he never threw anything away and I had to begin that process of decluttering and, yeah, I mean I rallied my friends and family to help. I mean we had 11 clothing, clothing closets in that house and he had 10 of them, those 10 were his.

Speaker 1:

One was mine, so there were so many things and that was just the closet, nevermind all the drawers and so, but I just, you know, I mean you know, order pizza and get everybody to come over and start, because, one, it's emotional yes, no matter what and two, it's a lot of work, it's a lot. It took me a year to clean out that that house, but that was the initial. That's how I got it started was with the help of my friends and family, because, you're right, was with the help of my friends and family, because you're right, you can't do it alone.

Speaker 1:

What do you find? Or have you found any one common um block that most of your clients have that you find you have to like get through each time?

Speaker 2:

oh, that's such a good question. Excuse me, bless you. The blocks can be. Oh, the blocks, the blocks, the blocks.

Speaker 1:

I mean, do they find it hard to sit there and meditate for a minute or think about, or do they not even know what their goal is? They just know something is wrong, but they don't know what.

Speaker 2:

So when they first come to me, they do have a desire to be done with this clutter. They've worked with other organizers. They've, um, you know, followed. They've read the books, the decluttering books. They've had some systems in place from those organizers and declutterers. Um, they've you maybe? They read the magazines and watch the TV shows and everything looks so beautiful and simple and you know, 30 minutes it's over.

Speaker 1:

But magic of TV.

Speaker 2:

Totally. But there is so much. So they, they want that. Look, they want to be released from this cycle of clutter and the roadblocks that they have are a lot of subtle emotional things. You know the obligations, you know the gifts that you received, the you know from the trips. You've places you've been the family heirlooms you've been passed down, places you've been the family heirlooms you've been passed down, and it's just, it creates this weight and this crippling paralysis around. How am I supposed to reconcile that, those emotions and those memories and those obligations, with the history and the sentimentality? But so there's that, there's the you know, obviously, the guilt, um, from letting go of gifts or, if you do, and the cost of what you bought and you know didn't use. And there's also you know, we've been in patterns and habits in our lives for years unconscious habits and patterns, and decluttering rattles the cage on those things and actually asks you to do something different Because obviously, if you're doing the same thing, it's not working. That's the old insanity plea, you know.

Speaker 2:

So, um, gotta do something different, um, and there's a lot of fear involved yeah, you're the unknown because you are doing something different yeah, and and then making a mistake like what if I throw that you know armoire or not throw or give this armoire to someone else who I don't know, and will it haunt me for the rest of my life?

Speaker 2:

You know, but most of the time, these feelings that you have around, these regrets or the mistakes afterwards, they probably last two minutes or you know, you know, and they and you, you still breathe, your heart's still beating and you're still enjoying the morning coffee the next day. It's just, you know there's a place for that, and so I have people take the photographs and do the videos, share a video with other family members or ask other family members to share videos, stories about items that they're going to release. You know, and sometimes I see if there's another way to use that piece in the space, you know, challenge them to think about. Can you use that door as a um, uh, uh, a tray? You know, a tray for something you use in the future? You actually use it, yeah, or it's stuff you get out of the boxes, right, yeah?

Speaker 2:

Get out of the boxes, put it up on the wall or put it in a you know place where people can see it, and a conversation can begin around that dead thing in the box right Bring it to life, right.

Speaker 2:

So it's just, it's practicing with letting things go, feeling the feelings, knowing that you're still going to be okay, and usually there's like 1.1% of stuff that people have regrets about. And we have regrets about things, other things in life, and we still live with those and we make better decisions next time or it influences us in another way.

Speaker 1:

Right, exactly, it's amazing really how, um, how much hold some things have. It's just a thing, you know. It's not a person, it's not an animal, it's not. It's a thing like, like the armoire, it's just a thing. But do you recommend I've read several places where some organizers recommend, okay, when you're decluttering, you know, if you really, if you have, you know, well, first of all, I think, if you have, like you know, a thousand hummel pieces or yard row pieces or whatever you know, bring it down to 10 or 10 important ones, take pictures of the others or take a picture of that armoire or whatever. Do you recommend that? Do you find that that works for some of your clients, taking a picture of something before giving it away?

Speaker 2:

oh yeah, I think it really is soothing for the soul. It really allows them to, you know. I say, put it on your you know computer screen, put the picture there for as long as you need that picture and just allow yourself to fully kind of put closure or appreciation around that piece. Don't deny the feelings that you're having because, like I say, they, they're valuable processors and muscle builders around you know some resistance and decision-making. The longer you can linger in some of that discomfort decision-making, the longer you can linger in some of that discomfort, the more resilience you have.

Speaker 2:

As Emma Seppala she wrote the Happiness Track and she talked about compassion is about building resilience and grit in your system because, or the qualities of compassion are wisdom, kindness, patience and understanding. Yeah, and, and those are the pieces that we're going through when we look at and let go of that armoire you know like, and we're getting stronger and yes, yeah, it builds confidence.

Speaker 1:

It is amazing, you know, that is one thing. It does make you stronger. I mean, when I went through that major process, it does make you stronger, and for whatever reason, well, I mean it does make sense. It made me freer. I mean I really felt like I could do so much more. You know I could do. Well, first of all, you go through something like that, you know you, you do build up that resilience because you're challenging yourself each time you get rid of something or you move something away or whatever. And as the space, as the items get less and less, the items that are left have more importance. You know, so you have. I don't know. There's just this, I don't even know what to call it, but it does change the entire way you feel at home. Freer is the only thing I can think of. I don't even know if that's the right word.

Speaker 2:

It's a huge word in the decluttering process that every single person feels that freedom from the release, absolutely, and the weight of the burden that is lifted. Yeah, that's part of it, because it's physical. All of our stuff has energy, right and and and it takes up and as that energy gets refined and you're bringing out and seeing for the first time maybe the real loved items that you have that is also feeding you, yeah, instead of you know. So it's a double win in the process of decluttering is releasing heavy and burdened energy and then shining a light on those beautiful things that give you that you love and give you energy yeah, that give you joy.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean because the other items, when you have so much clutter, it's really depleting you of that because it's just so busy and it's just so overwhelming. But you're right, there's a lot of I mean, tied in with all of that is all that guilt and so, and so gave me this. I can't get rid of it, even though you know that person may may have been, may have moved across the world, or they're never going to see them again, or they passed them. I can't get rid of it. That's what made me think about taking pictures of it, if that was a viable kind of thing. What do you do? You think that there's any difference in working with a client who's 30 years old versus with a client who's 80 years old, versus with a client who's 80 years old, as far as your process with them? I mean, the only thing I'm thinking of is maybe with an 80 year old, you're not dealing just with the client, but with the family too. I mean, is there?

Speaker 1:

what do you see as the change?

Speaker 2:

Well, that's a really great question and my niche is actually more on older, midlife and older adults, primarily women. I don't have a good sense of that younger, 30 to 50 generation it's being 63 myself like I don't know. Am I? They're four, they'll figure it out, and there is so much going on in those you know generations. That is unique and I'm not an expert in that, but what I find is um for the 50 to 70 year olds. They're um I can speak to their and, again, I primarily work with women.

Speaker 2:

And because these and the women that I work with they're primarily professional, in some way it could be professional volunteers, could be professional work. You know they work in the work world, they're educated, they're really family and community oriented um, really devoted and super hard, working right and and they're ready for time for the for themselves. The kids are starting to. Most of them have moved away and got lives of their own and she's looking around and saying, finally, I want to do something for me. It's still hard for them to do that because the habits and patterns and what people expect it makes and they're pleasing. They like to please people. A lot of us women do.

Speaker 1:

I'm guilty of that.

Speaker 2:

yes, You're right, but so, but they're, they're really passionately determined to shake things up here at home and they're ready to hire some help and and it's understanding that you know they're they're on the, you know, the later side of their life you know, and they're thinking about their legacy and there's a lot of stories around people leaving four dumpsters worth of stuff for their kids to deal with, deal with.

Speaker 2:

And I I worked for a senior move manager company, um, carrying transitions here in Minneapolis. Um, and there was. I helped them. There were those five dumpster clean routes that we had to work on. Um, it's a real thing and people are they want to do, they want to dig in a little deeper too. They're not afraid. They know. They know because they've done all the, they've had help with organizing, they've had help with the books, and they're coming to realize that I might be at the source of this problem you know, and you know, they've checked off all the other things that haven't worked, and so they're looking in the mirror a little more honestly at this stage of life and saying I'm willing to do the work.

Speaker 1:

So do you ever have family members coming to you to help their aging parent versus the aging parent asking?

Speaker 2:

for help. Yeah, I think that's a really tricky place to be. I think I think that's a really tricky place to be. Again, the work I do, we want people who want to be here in the, in the process, working on their own. You know it's supporting the young. You know the. You know the the I'm sorry, the the adult child, okay, yeah, the adult. Is that what they're called Right In your world?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, the adult kids.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's the yeah yeah.

Speaker 1:

Although the funny thing is, you know I think I've mentioned another time we spoke is that because people are aging so much longer now, you know, because of medicine and vaccines and everything, people are just living so much longer. Um know, because of medicine and vaccines and everything, people are just living so much longer, healthier, longer. It's amazing that seniors you know, the adult kids are seniors too. The seniors are taking care of seniors, so it seems funny talking about them as kids, but they are the adult kids, yeah they are Right.

Speaker 2:

So most of the time I run across the adult kids who are dealing with aging parents, and some that still have kids at home. You know, they're taking care of their kids too, and so I was on this midlife. What was it called? Midlife? Yeah, a mindset it's. It's a, it's a podcast on midlife women, and by um, oh, my gosh, my, my whole brain, robin austin. She's a phd nurse educator.

Speaker 1:

Um, oh, midlife unmasked is the name of her podcast on what um midlife unmasked oh, unmasked, oh, midlife, I thought you said on meth, oh that's so terrible, what, what? Did you just say I'm writing it down midlife unmasked. All right, I love it, that's better, that's a better title.

Speaker 2:

Okay, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 2:

And you know she's in that situation where she's talking about her parents and has kids.

Speaker 2:

There is so much weight on these women's shoulders to honor the parents in the process and continue to tend to the roles and responsibilities they have at home, the boundaries that need to be established in the effort to find collaborators in this process, it's you've got to stop the boat sometime and just try to put together a plan where you get the help on both sides of the equation, encourage family members, your kids, to get involved, because you know, like me, I'm kind of a controller, you know, in my household and I wanted things done a certain way in my house. So I did everything and after a while I started to get really angry. You know I resentful resentful, that's a better word and finally I'm like I'm not gonna cook dinner so much as so regularly as I have who else is going to do that? And I don't want to mow the lawn anymore. You know, like right, and we got to figure out how to share those things and it we've got to open our mouth and ask for help in on both ends of the spectrum in those situations.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, it's true, boundaries are so very important. You know, I just wrote a few articles on that topic and I I it almost made me think. Well, it did make me think that you almost need a 12-step program kind of thing for, um, for, and it is mostly women. I mean, there are a few men who are caregivers, but it's mostly. It mostly falls on the women and you know they're working, so they have their work life, they have their caregiving life, they have their you know, their wife life, their mother life. I mean, it is overwhelming and it's impossible for anyone to survive that without being resentful or angry or completely broken.

Speaker 1:

Yes resentful or angry or or completely broken. Yes, gotten to the point where I know so many of my friends have done done just that, and when their parent did finally pass away, they ended up with a serious illness because they weren't attending to themselves. They couldn't, and all the stress and everything that comes along with it. It's just. When you look at it from the outside it seems ridiculous. You know why are you doing that, but when you're on the inside it's so emotionally built and who knows what the relationship was between the parents and the kids. That's why I think it is so different, you know, with younger adults versus older adults on, and the whole process. Um and I guess I mean it's true with anything every client that you go to is very. Do you have a um, some kind of a pre-questionnaire or something that can, like show you what the client is before you meet the client? Did I say that correctly?

Speaker 2:

I got. I got your message, yes okay so I do a 30-minute discovery call beforehand and kind of understand where they're coming from, what their goals are, what they want um from what do they need? What do they want from a coach?

Speaker 1:

do they?

Speaker 2:

have ever been coached before um and get a sense of their readiness and talk about this work that they've done already to get started and how that's been going. If they haven't started anything, I ask them to you know, take a month and let's work on one project that you want to get done and just practice on that and see how willing you are to let things go. If your goal is to, you know, clean off the um out the buffet, you know um, and and we'll talk about actual percentages Do you want to get rid of 30% or do you want to get rid of 50%? And then we'll, you know, have them call me back and we'll talk again and see where they were in that you know that project and their willingness factor because that's what we do together is there's a major goal that's explored through a two hour get to know session.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

Um, that we have. And I asked you know eight to two, 11 questions, um, about you know successes they've had in their life, what they're known for. You know roadblocks that they're aware of when it comes to decluttering and how they respond? And, um, you know just various questions, getting to know them deeper. Because this is a wonderfully we create a container for this work to be done in a safe and respectful way where client is leading this process, but I am locked arm and arm with that client and being their cheerleader, keeping them moving, keeping them on track, watching the distractions. Okay, you're going in this direction now, is that it's okay? If you changed your direction, yeah, let's revisit where you want it to go and redefine what your new. You know the, this nuance of this new. If this goal is and but we I'm the client is doing all of the change and the growth.

Speaker 1:

They have to. I mean it's them. You're coaching, you're not doing right as a virtual coach Right, right, exactly, exactly.

Speaker 2:

And the beauty of the work we do I do with creating teams in this process is to collaborate with other organizers and declutterers. Again, I can do this all over the world because I have a network of organizers and declutter not world, united States and the three of us the client, myself and the coach and the organizer declutter senior move manager, whomever it may be. We're just in this. We're all going in the same direction with this client and it's proven to be. This is kind of a revolutionary way to think about decluttering in this team process and I'm I'm working to establish this concept by meeting other organizers and from around the world. So around the world I don't know why I keep saying that around the earth I know what you mean, and I mean you could go worldwide, of course.

Speaker 1:

Um, I love that idea because, um, if you are, what it sounds like to me is that you are the project manager of this team. You know you're the contractor that's coming in and then you're, you know, supervising, because somebody has to lay out the team goals so that everyone is aware of where you're going, what you're doing and how things change. Things may change in the middle of creating that. So is that how you work, how you tailor each project for each client, you know, depending on what they need? Maybe an estate planner, I mean not an estate planner, what do they call the estate company, estate auctions, or that come in and yeah, yeah, yeah, estate sales, Estate sales, yes and truly.

Speaker 2:

I never want to lose sight of the fact that the client is the one who's really keeping us on track and, as support staff, if you will, um, support people we, we are just ensuring that we're all doing, moving in the direction that that client wants to go. Um, so I may be, I'm, I might be someone at at the hub. Just well, I'm not even at a hub. I see us as a triangle. We're all equally important in the process and knowing that maybe at the peak of that triangle is the client's vision, I like that picture better.

Speaker 1:

I like that picture in my head better. So do you provide your clients with a workbook or sheets or something that keeps them, you know, working towards their goal? How does that work?

Speaker 2:

Well, because actually you know shameless plug, my book is a working journal and it's actually my process of working through self-compassion, attachment and values, clarification, vision clarification, decision making tools. So we're doing a lot of that throughout the process and we really have to establish a vision. First and foremost, we have to know where we're going. Where does that client want to go? That's our North Star. Where does that client want to go? That's our North Star. And all around that, support supported by the values, and making sure we're living our values within that vision. Because a lot of us can talk about the values we have where we're going by re, you know, just identifying those values in the process too.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, if I answered your question I find most people don't even really know their values. You know, they haven't taken the time to sit down. They they may think they know, but then when you really question them they just go uh.

Speaker 2:

Well, I have a very easy 12-minute video on meditation on my website in my resources section and for both vision and values, along with the worksheet. There's a worksheet there anyone can go and I'm always curious where it takes people and and how it shines a light on maybe some new information. It's kind of fun.

Speaker 1:

I love that. I mean that ties in so well with that whole type of compassionate decluttering, because it's not just, you know, like I said at the beginning, when I got this book and I was looking through it, it's so different from so many of the other decluttering books that I've gotten, and even even you know, youtube videos and webinars, whatever because I really do believe that decluttering is the number one step to the very first step to aging in place. Yeah, you know is what my niche is. But, um, but what was made this book so different is that, like you said, you're coming from the inside. You're not only decluttering the environment around you. That the environment, I always think is a reflection of what's inside. So you have to declutter that, work on that, and then it just kind of glows out. You know it just comes out and it starts working. It's like a light coming out of you and it starts, you know, fixing the environment. You know if I could create a picture, that's what I think of.

Speaker 1:

I like that. I love that. You're. You know that this came out, that I love that you're. You know that this came out. I love that you did that book. I think it's, I think it's a beautiful book, so anyone listening or watching definitely I'll have links to it I think it's a perfect book to have for anyone who's who's even just beginning to think about how do I go through this process, because it really does take time and you have to give yourself time not only to get into that mindset but then to actually physically do it yes, and that word mindset is so critical and that's where the essence of the book is.

Speaker 2:

It's shifting the way you're thinking about your stuff, you know, because the process of decluttering and for if people, like adult children, know that their parents may be in the next couple of years or three, you know, have there might be a change coming for them and their lifestyle to include the parents in this conversation about you know what's important and where, and and allowing them to, because it takes did I already say this it takes a couple years to just make that transition and rather be ahead of it. It's never too early to start right right, it's never too early to start.

Speaker 1:

I mean, you definitely want to start. I. I have a great friend who who practiced from the. I've known her 30 years and she taught her children and she and her husband practice it. If one item comes into the house, one item goes out of the house and her kids still do that and I think that that you know. But it it takes time and it takes practice. It takes a mindset, yes, but if you're not born with that, if you don't have that immediately, it's going to take. You have to be patient with yourself and realize it will happen. You know very much like a slow diet. You know post-menopause dieting is very, very, very slow.

Speaker 2:

Exactly, and it's. It's just what? What right? One small project at a time and one small project at a time?

Speaker 1:

yeah, it's true oh, michelle, this was amazing. Um what other resources do you have on your website? Can you um it's?

Speaker 2:

mostly resources associated with my book, and every chapter might have three or four uh work. It's um activities and associated worksheets and things like that, so people can dig in and and see what comes up for them. Um, I'm, I'm available to call it, talk to me anytime. Uh, you can find myself on linkedin and on instagram. Um, I've got I do two minute videos, you know, once a month and I've got a I I meet with people who want to are interested in life coaching. I mean home coaching and working with organizers. I have a monthly meeting with um organizers. My, you know you can see it on my LinkedIn or Instagram. Uh, what's coming up in the next month?

Speaker 1:

So I love that. So tell me your website again. And um is that the best way for people to get a hold of you is through the website?

Speaker 2:

Excuse me, me um homecoachhoffcom. Okay, easy, breezy, and same homecoachhoffcom at linkedin and instagram. Um, I think, my, I think linkedin is the best way to get a hold of me, okay, and if you tell me what your clients would you know when you think of TV?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean, I think, if you have a phone number on your website, if you have a contact page on your website, then I mean those two in addition to LinkedIn. Those are three excellent ways, and it's homecoach H-O-F-F, as in Frank com, in case people aren't hearing it well, oh, and I've got a newsletter that if you go, if you go on my website, yeah, Two free chapters of my book. Oh great.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I, you know I don't pressure people. I have stories and that does still down to you know one or two lines about decluttering, that distill down to. You know one or two lines about decluttering, but it's really how life is all about. You know the choices we make right and how we manage those choices.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and manage the events that happen to us? Yeah, because things happen. So, it's not what happens happens, it's how you react to what happens at the end of the day. But it's a beautifully written book. I mean, thank you. You know I I love the way it it follows. I, I think it's, I think it's excellent, I think you did a great job.

Speaker 1:

So again, it was worth the 12 years yeah, I know I can't believe it's been 12, but it's um. It was worth the 12 years. Yeah, I know I can't believe it's been 12. But it's beautiful. You can tell there's a lot of love in it and it flows well. You know, I don't know how you decided what went first, second, third, whatever, but it's beautifully written. I think you did a great job, easy to follow, so I thank you so much, thank you.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, thank you, oh wow, thank you so much, thank you, thank you, thank you. So such a pleasure, mr.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I look forward to talking to you more, not only about this, but you know all the other amazing because you are so well rounded. It's your. You know there's some people that you meet that you can only talk to about two, three things, and then that's it their. Their extent of knowledge is in a box. And then other people their knowledge base is, you know, the size of the planet. So I love that because it makes conversation flow so much easier, and I mean you learn from each and every person.

Speaker 2:

You do Well, thank you, and I admire what you're doing so much as well. I look forward to further collaborations with you and every person. You do Well, thank you, and I admire what you're doing so much as well. I look forward to further collaborations with you and other people. I know you've got a new person you're going to interview soon that I'm very curious about and I want to follow that interview.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I'm always looking for you know people to interview and you know.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Anything that's unique and different I love because I think it makes it forces you to think out of your box, and when I write the articles and when I do the webinars for the members of the directory, I always try to think of you know, an out of the box way to use this or that or whatever. Like you know, today I did a webinar on Amazon affiliate program and how that can boost your income, and a lot of people don't think. A lot of aging place professionals don't consider, even considered, using Amazon as part of an income booster, but it, it absolutely can be, wow, so, um, all right, so hold on for a little bit, but I want to thank everybody and I will see you in the next podcast. Thank you.

Contributor

Esther C. Kane, CAPS, C.D.S.

Host